Posts or Comments 06 September 2010

Monthly Archive for "May 2005"



Church ali | 30 May 2005

FCM Overview.

This entry is part 2 of 4 in the series Church Membership (old)

Here is a basic overview of the reasons Matty does not think FCM is a good thing:

1. It is not in the Bible - many people admit it is not there explicitly, but is there implicitly. Matty disagrees.
2. It adds to the simplicity of the gospel - “The bible syas repent and believe on the Lord Jesus, be baptised for the forgiveness of sins and you will be saved. It never says become a member”
3. It is divisive and judgmental - members are seen as Christians or approved Christians. Instead, anyone who is a Christian is a member of the body of Christ as long as they have repentance and belief “evidenced by their fruit”. Baptism is the only “formal sign” needed.
4. It creates more structure than the bible teaches, and this causes problems such as having women (FCMembers) in positions of leadership over men (non-FCMembers) and only recognises FCMembers as those allowed to exercise gifts, or encouraged to take responsibility.
5. FCM becomes the fund from which a full-time pastor is paid, fudging motives of the Pastor toward the church.
6. It is unnecessary. FCM leads toward a “lording over type church that demands commitment, rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to bring real commitment”
7. Church members are “born into” the church when they become Christians. They do not become members after they are saved.
8. There is no instance of God requiring a person to make a vow or do something else to join the church.
9. FCM encourages casting out of Christians from the church instead of helping a sinning Christian. Disciplined Christians are put out without going through biblical guidelines.
10. FCM has been wrongly justified as an attempt to distinguish between the “visible” and “invisible” church. That is not man’s job.

11. FCM is not needed to vote pastors and deacons because they are appointed by God and should be recognised and confirmed by all in the church.

Well, there you go. Next, my perspective.

Church ali | 30 May 2005

My Experience of Kirk Membersheep

This entry is part 2 of 4 in the series Church Membership (old)

Matt started questioning formal church membership (FCM) while part of a church that practiced it. Unfortunately, he was badly treated by that church and I think that has influenced his weighing of this topic. I, on the other hand, have only had neutral-to-good church membership experiences, and I think this gives me a different perspective. Let me start with my experience of FCM so you know where I am coming from. Then I’ll tackle the article.

I began attending my present (Baptist) church believing that formal church membership was an unnecessary burden - you didn’t need it and it got in the way, but it wasn’t a terrible evil. The last four churches I had attended did not have FCM and the one before that was Baptist but I didn’t sign up as a member. In fact, for years I had remained a member of the Presbyterian Church of my parents without attending it.

One Sunday evening, the pastor of my present church preached about commitment - committing your life to Jesus for the first time, committing yourself to baptism, and committing yourself to the church through church membership. I was surprised and shocked! I didn’t think (and I am still not sure) that it was appropriate to place church membership alongside baptism and “praying the sinner’s prayer”. So, I decided to ask the pastor about it. He readily confessed that you cannot prove FCM from the Bible, but he also said he believed in it for his church. Go figure.

His reasons had to do with knowing where a person stood doctrinally and whether they were committed to the church. This is important in the Baptist Church, especially because of the congregational vote. After all, you can’t have people turning up to a meeting with no commitment to the church and nothing known about them and voting on the church’s business (especially where I live - there are a lot of tourists).

He also liked to put only church members in leadership positions (though he was flexible) because he understood that those were the people who agreed with the basic doctrine of the church and who were committed enough to go to the effort of becoming members (not that it involves much effort).

We talked about it a couple of times after that, and then, when I put up my hand to be a Home Group Leader, I asked if the pastor required that my wife and I become members. He replied that he would prefer it, but that it wasn’t a requirement. I thought, If a member means that you agree with the basic doctrine and you are committed to the church, that’s me. What’s the problem with joining? So I did, to keep him happy. I haven’t suffered. I have no huge love for the practice, but I haven’t got a huge hate for it either. I can see it’s uses.

Church ali | 29 May 2005

Kirk Membersheep

This entry is part 1 of 4 in the series Church Membership (old)

Well, my friend Matty has written an essay on church membership. It is long. Very long. I would think that if anyone hasn’t read it, they may want to wait for my response first, because that way they will be biased toward my way of thinking, and it will also save them time. But there are others, hopefully Matty himself, who have read the article and will interact with me on this topic.

Having said that, this article came out of a negative experience of church membership that Matty had and he has now moved on. It may be that he is confident in what he believes and feels no compulsion to go over it again. That being the case, I may be talking to myself. No matter. If that’s the case, I’ll write my thoughts and leave it there.

So, for me and those who want to know, the essay is here.

I’ll post my comments soonish.

Sundry blog matters ali | 28 May 2005

A New World

I’ve entered the new world of blogging. Will this last or is this a mere brief foray into the fascinating arena of opinioning? We’ll have to wait and see.

Actually, the main purpose for this blog is to communicate with others I know, to discuss ideas that they have put forward, or ideas that I may put forward, without having to resort to email. I’ve had the idea for a couple of weeks, but now that my main hotmail account seems to have become inaccessible to me (still trying to sort it out) I thought this would be a good alternative - and a good way to tell people that my main hotmail account is inaccessible to me.

So, what will hopefully appear here in the future (as time allows - which may mean gaps of weeks and months) are thoughts and comments on the following topics (in no particular order):

- Church Membership. A response to Matt Cameron’s essay about how evil it is.
- Love - what is it?
- Spirit baptism
- Time
- Oh, and anything else I think of over time.

I may need to mention, of course, that they will be mainly Christian topics. Can’t help it. I’m stuck. Got nothing else to talk about. Sorry.